Please log in!
Ankama Video Portal
Registration
Forgot your password?

Ogrines > post

A few months ago, I announced the Ogrines project to you on this blog, and unfortunately, after several weeks of discussions, I had to leave to work full time on the project.

The time has now come to bring you up to speed.

Was the project abandoned?

No, not at all, but after analysing your feedback, we reviewed certain things. That coupled with the release of DOFUS 2.0 meant we had to push back our initial deadlines.

Today, after hundreds of hours of design, creation, development, and testing, Ogrines are closer than ever to their official launch (we cannot give any release date until everything is 100% certain on our side).

What’s changed since the end of 2009?

Lots have things have changed a little bit, but we think it would be clearer if we just spoke about the things that are visible to players.

1.       “Certified” Ogrines have gone

Certified Ogrines are no more! We have decided to simplify this concept, and above all, avoid the difficulties involved with certification.

  • When you buy Ogrines, they will be immediately available to use for subscription, services, or the Kama Exchange. However, certain “high-risk” accounts and transactions will have to wait for support to validate the payment. During this time, the Ogrines will be locked to the player’s account and can only be used for subscription and for services that do not involve other players.
  • Ogrines will only be locked for a certain number of days (like subscription gifts for example), which will vary depending on your method of payment.
  • Ogrines bought on the Kama Exchange with Kamas are forever locked to the receiving account. They can’t be used on the Exchange, but can be used for subscription or to activate services.
  • The possibility of “re-certification” has been totally ruled-out for the time being.

2.       The Kama Exchange and the Ogrine Exchange

While making the models for the Kama Exchange interfaces, (see the screenshots below), we wanted to simplify the system by creating two specific portals:

  • The Kama Exchange, for buying and selling Kamas (in exchange for your Ogrines)
  • The Ogrine Exchange, for buying and selling Ogrines (in exchange for your Kamas)

3.       New prices

Ogrines will be sold at “round” prices: 10€, 20€, 40€ and 60€, or of course, 1 audio code (for 700 Ogrines).
Whether you use Ogrines or classic subscription, the price will remain the same. For example, a 1-month DOFUS subscription is €5, and for €10 you’ll have 6,000 Ogrines, which is 2 months of subscription. Proportionally the subscription price remains €5 for 1 month, whether you use Ogrines or subscribe in the classic manner.

4.       Gift Points

This is THE new thing that will arrive alongside Ogrines! While you’re waiting for the next post, which will be devoted to Gift Points, we can tell you that with each Ogrine purchase, you’ll gain Gift Points, and you’ll be able to accumulate them and exchange them for gifts.

5.       Kards

This is the new name for Collectible Cards/Lottery Cards. We wanted a shorter name that avoided confusion with Wakfu TCG.

What about the Ogrines that came with the DOFUS 2.0 Collector’s Box?

Don’t worry; they’re still on your account. As soon as Ogrines launch, you’ll be able to use them to activate services for your characters on the DOFUS 2.0 servers.

So Ogrines really are coming, then?

Yes, and to prove it, here are a few screenshots we’re finalising internally:

The next post

In the next post we’ll talk about Gift Points in more detail.

A dedicated topic is also open on the DOFUS forum.

Tags : Ogrines Gift Points Kama Exchange

Your comments
QUOTE
Kards
This is the new name for Collectible Cards/Lottery Cards. We wanted a shorter name that avoided confusion with Wakfu TCG.
The K in both words now makes it more similar in my mind... though I haven't exactly been paying attention anyway. Are they actually "cards" or could you call them "vouchers" or something?


The colours on that Sadida blink.gif
By GoldfishGod 09.March.2010 - 11:34
"Kards" are basically lottery tickets or tokens that you drop in game. They can either be sold for Ogrine to someone on another server/Ankama game, or you can use them to obtain the item they represent. Then you can sell them for kamas, if you want. Which could then theoretically be used to buy Ogrine. Or not.
Also, look at the first picture. Bottom left.

Who wouldn't want a cute Black Quaquack? A sweet little crow devourer!

Oh, and I completely agree about the Sadida. Awful. She needs a Colour-change potion.
By Oamoka 09.March.2010 - 13:12
Would it be possible to have Ogrines allow a guild leader to rename their guild? Some guilds could benefit from a little spell checking and capitalization correction, while other guilds original concept have gone under.

With the new color system, it would also be useful if we could key in a hex code (HTML color code) rather than use the color picker. Guilds that want to match could insure they're all the same color, people that want to match their sets will be able to more accurately do so.

I've been patiently waiting for 2.0 and all it's splendor. Very happy to see that day is on the way.
By meodkd 09.March.2010 - 16:55
umm... So you CAN use the ogrines to rename your character right? Im just curious does it have the limitations like they have nowadays like only one - mark and no big letters in the middle like RoCkAr (lol what a name)? If not im gonna rename me very epicly. IF NOT im not gonna do a thing
By zetzima 09.March.2010 - 17:20
Hello! I'm new to Dofus 2.0 (not 1.29) , and i have a question about Ogrines.

How do you pronounce it?
Are there any MODS that can give you them In-game.
I'm really poor so I'm working hard on a lv 21 Sram.
................................................................^lol^ laugh.gif biggrin.gif Mini Champion
By demondread 09.March.2010 - 21:26
Mods cant give it to you
By rocketsnail 09.March.2010 - 21:56
No mention of being able to pay for just the days you want to play. This is getting worse and worse. sad.gif

Will the trading aspect be FORCED on to servers who think kama-buying should be banned? ie those who don't want PvP ruined, nor turq prices skyrocketing nor being overrun by begging kids & P2P bots...
By ChoKuRei 09.March.2010 - 22:08
Yes this is very worrying as it is clearly an attempt to make kamas buying legit and more wide spread. I don't think this system, which is the sole method of making money for some MMOs, will work well with the paid subscription service that currently exists. I am also concerned that bots will be even more rampant than they are currently.

People can already buy kamas in a sense by trading audio codes, but mis-trust and abuse means that it is not as wide spread as it could be. With this new secure trading system Ankama obviously hope that more people will trade real money for kamas in this way.

Nobody can know how this will affect the internal economy, but one can only assume that a rapid influx of individuals prepared to pay real money for kamas will cause massive inflation. How people who don't want to pay real money for kamas will cope with this is difficult to imagine.

The overall trend is what worries me most. How long will it be before new sets arrive that are more powerful than those which currently exist, but these will only be able to be bought with ogrines. This strategy of making money by Ankama could well backfire if it proves unpopular.
By DeathlyRat 10.March.2010 - 02:44
what is going on with the Ogrines being sold in "round numbers"? you mention lots of Ogrines in terms of Euros but when we buy subscriptions it is not in whole dollar amounts due to currency exchange rates I would imagine... more over when such subscriptions are purchased in other countries (South America, Brazil, UK {Pounds sterling}) I am sure those currency amounts are not in "round numbers". Your feedback would be appreciated.
By HeadMasterWhompus 10.March.2010 - 03:28
QUOTE (meodkd @ 9 Mar 2010, 17:55) *
With the new color system, it would also be useful if we could key in a hex code (HTML color code) rather than use the color picker. Guilds that want to match could insure they're all the same color, people that want to match their sets will be able to more accurately do so.

You can shift+click on the colour channel thing, and it gives you a little box you can put the hex code into.
By Oamoka 10.March.2010 - 04:00
So much for a simple, affordable game. Down the toilet it goes. I should never have purchased a year's subscription. Thought I was saving money. Looks like maybe I wasn't.

Even if this doesn't ruin the in-game economy, it will certainly complicate everything.

Ankama, your cash-grab is not amusing. You may make a few $ more to start, but you may also lose players like me who chose this game because it didn't have all this cheesy, out-of-game crap.

I've got an idea for you: NEW GAME CONTENT! Put your resources into the actual game for a change.
By Daowen 11.March.2010 - 10:49
QUOTE (Daowen @ 11 Mar 2010, 11:49) *
NEW GAME CONTENT!

*cough* FRIGOST *cough*
By Oamoka 11.March.2010 - 11:10
QUOTE (Daowen @ 11 Mar 2010, 09:49) *
So much for a simple, affordable game. Down the toilet it goes. I should never have purchased a year's subscription. Thought I was saving money. Looks like maybe I wasn't.
They've stated that they're planning to make the cost of buying Ogrine-equivalent of the various P2P time-periods equal to the current subscription... So you will probably get the same "reduced price" as buying a full year sub, as you would for buying the equivalent amount of Ogrine (or when you use that Ogrine to sub for a full year).

QUOTE
Even if this doesn't ruin the in-game economy, it will certainly complicate everything.
"Pay money -> get Sub", is now "Pay money -> get Ogrine -> get Sub"... I think you're overstating the issue.

QUOTE
I've got an idea for you: NEW GAME CONTENT! Put your resources into the actual game for a change.
Arguably this is a bot/gold-selling prevention measure... so it is improving the game.
By GoldfishGod 11.March.2010 - 11:10
QUOTE (GoldfishGod @ 11 Mar 2010, 11:10) *
Arguably this is a bot/gold-selling prevention measure... so it is improving the game.

Ankama selling kamas isn't an improvement but will rather legitimise the botters' business. As demonstrated, it will probably make the bot situation much worse and ruin PvP & the market for rare items at the same time.
By ChoKuRei 11.March.2010 - 14:42
QUOTE (ChoKuRei @ 11 Mar 2010, 13:42) *
Ankama selling kamas isn't an improvement but will rather legitimise the botters' business.
I believe there are things planned that allow Ogrines to be tracked, so that "repetative behaviour" involving Ogrine-Kama transfers can flag up an account as a bot. That's at least 1 additional bot detection method. If a bot-companies pays for subscriptions, they probably have a number of accounts off the same bank account (I believe Ankama already has some measures of bot-prevention involving mass subscriptions from the same bank account)

It may legitimise kama-buying (not exactly kama-seller, because you can't use the system to directly get real money from kama), but Ankama are essentially the banker in the equation... more trustworthy than 3rd-party kama sellers, and providing a more direct method directly integrated into the game-client. At the best, they simple push some of the gold-seller/botters out of the game, by being a direct competitor (without actually becoming botters themselves, so no additional strain on the servers).
By GoldfishGod 11.March.2010 - 15:37
This is freakin awesome!

Edit: And it's all just business, don't forget that people. Naturally Ankama wants to make some money instead of letting the Chinese people have it all! Duh!
By AssassinGoddess 12.March.2010 - 02:29
QUOTE (GoldfishGod @ 11 Mar 2010, 15:37) *
I believe there are things planned that allow Ogrines to be tracked, so that "repetative behaviour" involving Ogrine-Kama transfers can flag up an account as a bot. That's at least 1 additional bot detection method.

Bots will likely be banned long before any week sub is up. Maybe this is why Ankama seem to have set a minimum subscription of 2 months via ogrines. That would probably prevent it.

QUOTE
If a bot-companies pays for subscriptions, they probably have a number of accounts off the same bank account (I believe Ankama already has some measures of bot-prevention involving mass subscriptions from the same bank account)

I'm not sure if they'd use codes for the cheapness or a bank account for the ease of automation. Clearly subbing via some in game market is much more convenient for botters if the minimum amount of amas required isn't too high.

QUOTE
It may legitimise kama-buying (not exactly kama-seller, because you can't use the system to directly get real money from kama), but Ankama are essentially the banker in the equation... more trustworthy than 3rd-party kama sellers, and providing a more direct method directly integrated into the game-client.

As I'm not a cheat, I don't care if Ankama are more trustworthy. Cheats deserve to be scammed. 'Kama-sellers' who don't supply the kamas are actually doing us a favour.

QUOTE
At the best, they simple push some of the gold-seller/botters out of the game, by being a direct competitor (without actually becoming botters themselves, so no additional strain on the servers).

Don't see how this is possible as I've already demonstrated that botters can easily undercut ogrine sellers.

The only way botters will make less profit is if the increase in demand is less than the decrease in price they have to sell ogrines at.
By ChoKuRei 12.March.2010 - 03:59
QUOTE (ChoKuRei @ 12 Mar 2010, 02:59) *
As I'm not a cheat, I don't care if Ankama are more trustworthy. Cheats deserve to be scammed. 'Kama-sellers' who don't supply the kamas are actually doing us a favour.

Don't see how this is possible as I've already demonstrated that botters can easily undercut ogrine sellers.

The only way botters will make less profit is if the increase in demand is less than the decrease in price they have to sell ogrines at.
You seem to be missing the point... Immediate "Trustworthiness" is an immediate advantage over 3rd-party kama-farmers. Ankama are only legitimising it for themselves. Every other seller will be a possible scam/phishing risk.

This is the difference between buying from a well known street business, and off some weirdo in a back-alley. Buying from the weirdo risks you being stabbed, arrested, etc, while from the actual shop you get a receipt, warranty, etc.
By GoldfishGod 12.March.2010 - 09:17
QUOTE (ChoKuRei @ 12 Mar 2010, 03:59) *
Bots will likely be banned long before any week sub is up. Maybe this is why Ankama seem to have set a minimum subscription of 2 months via ogrines. That would probably prevent it.

On the French Ogrine page, it lists "1 code", "10 Euros", "20 Euros", "40 Euros" and "60 Euros". So, yes, minimum longer than a week is 2 months. However, you can still get 1 week.
By Oamoka 12.March.2010 - 11:58
QUOTE (GoldfishGod @ 12 Mar 2010, 09:17) *
You seem to be missing the point... Immediate "Trustworthiness" is an immediate advantage over 3rd-party kama-farmers. Ankama are only legitimising it for themselves. Every other seller will be a possible scam/phishing risk.

There's a huge advantage for kama-buyers, I don't deny it. Kama prices will fall 50% or more.

If you're saying that botters will have to close the credibility gap or give big discounts, I agree.

But legitimising kama-buying for players is Ankama's monumental mistake.

Oamoka - then you will see P2P bots everywhere. I won't. I'll have quit.

If Ankama want to sell kamas, let them do it on a new server where everyone has volunteered for such a pile of excrement. Maybe allow character transfers to it (with Ogrines), maybe not - because who would want to go and only compete with other cheats? The main value for significant kama-buyers is pretending that you're not a loser by beating people who haven't cheated.

Perhaps this way we could expunge some of the kama-buyers from our own servers: "If you want to cheat, go **** off to cheat server".
By ChoKuRei 12.March.2010 - 17:32
QUOTE (ChoKuRei @ 12 Mar 2010, 16:32) *
If you're saying that botters will have to close the credibility gap or give big discounts, I agree.
Not just that, I'm saying botters can never do anything to equal/beat Ankama's ingame advertising for the "Official Kama-Ogrine service". A "chunk" of their market is simply severed (the "customer" who looks for the quickest, safest, method to buy kama). It is not really something they can "regain" (though they can probably survive on the "greediest, most competitive" customer)... some may just drop out being the "weaker business" in the market (and move to more lucrative games)

QUOTE
If Ankama want to sell kamas, let them do it on a new server where everyone has volunteered for such a pile of excrement. Maybe allow character transfers to it (with Ogrines), maybe not - because who would want to go and only compete with other cheats? The main value for significant kama-buyers is pretending that you're not a loser by beating people who haven't cheated.

Perhaps this way we could expunge some of the kama-buyers from our own servers: "If you want to cheat, go **** off to cheat server".
This only applies if you refuse to see MMOs as anything other than a competition.

Frankly I hope they don't give "votes" for servers. Because your situation can simply be reversed in exactly the same manner. "If you don't want kama-ogrine, get off this server" to everyone who voted "no". Every single server will have its population disrupted this way unless it 100% unanimous either way for that individual server. Ogrine are planned for Wakfu, Ankama assumes most of Dofus' servers will accept this addition... it is part of their business-plan, they do not need to "quarantine" part of the business to cater for a select group of people.
By GoldfishGod 12.March.2010 - 17:55
QUOTE (GoldfishGod @ 12 Mar 2010, 17:55) *
Not just that, I'm saying botters can never do anything to equal/beat Ankama's ingame advertising for the "Official Kama-Ogrine service".

How about spamming everyone who goes to the ogrine market: "10% cheaper kamas than you can get through selling Ogrines, guaranteed"?

QUOTE
A "chunk" of their market is simply severed (the "customer" who looks for the quickest, safest, method to buy kama).

It's not safe to buy kamas at the moment. This is chunk is tiny if it even exists.

QUOTE
It is not really something they can "regain" (though they can probably survive on the "greediest, most competitive" customer)... some may just drop out being the "weaker business" in the market (and move to more lucrative games)

Survive? Even if they lose 50% of the market, the market will quadruple at least. Demand for bought kamas could increase 1000% easily. Botters' profits will almost certainly go up and in order to do that, they have to spam P2P/O2P bots everywhere.

QUOTE
This only applies if you refuse to see MMOs as anything other than a competition.

Are you saying that buying kamas isn't cheating? Because I think Ankama and nearly all players will disagree with you on that one.

QUOTE
Frankly I hope they don't give "votes" for servers. Because your situation can simply be reversed in exactly the same manner. "If you don't want kama-ogrine, get off this server" to everyone who voted "no".

"Yes, go away non-cheat. I only want to fight other cheats". Yeah I can see this happening loads. blink.gif
By ChoKuRei 12.March.2010 - 19:49
QUOTE (Oamoka @ 10 Mar 2010, 04:00) *
You can shift+click on the colour channel thing, and it gives you a little box you can put the hex code into.


Wow. The hours I've wasted tweaking colors... T_T

Thanks smile.gif
By meodkd 12.March.2010 - 20:41
QUOTE (ChoKuRei @ 12 Mar 2010, 18:49) *
How about spamming everyone who goes to the ogrine market: "10% cheaper kamas than you can get through selling Ogrines, guaranteed"?
"....but not directly through the client". Nor could they "advertise" on every single map in the game to every single player who is logged in.

QUOTE
It's not safe to buy kamas at the moment. This is chunk is tiny if it even exists.
I didn't say "100% safe" I said "safest". A "safer" site even in a black-market is the one that has actually built a reputation for "fair deals" (not whether it's approved by "the man" at Ankama)... compare that to some random site you've never heard of, with a badly screwed-together website, and poorly coded site-security.

QUOTE
Survive? Even if they lose 50% of the market, the market will quadruple at least. Demand for bought kamas could increase 1000% easily. Botters' profits will almost certainly go up and in order to do that, they have to spam P2P/O2P bots everywhere.
that increase in demand for kama, will likely be spawned for Ankama... the botters would need to actually tempt them outside of the Official boundaries. Either way, I think you're overstating the numbers.

QUOTE
Are you saying that buying kamas isn't cheating? Because I think Ankama and nearly all players will disagree with you on that one.
I'm saying it doesn't matter if someone else cheated... I can still play the game according to my own "rules". I might even interact with one of these "cheats" (as you insist on calling them), but it's no different than any other player who had a head-start through current methods (an "older" character that can "hand down" money which can be easily earnt at higher levels).

QUOTE
"Yes, go away non-cheat. I only want to fight other cheats". Yeah I can see this happening loads. blink.gif
I doubt anyone who is interested in the Ogrine/Kama system will consider themselves "cheats". No "Haxxor skills", "exploits", or "abuses" are involved.
By GoldfishGod 12.March.2010 - 21:02
QUOTE (GoldfishGod @ 12 Mar 2010, 21:02) *
Either way, I think you're overstating the numbers.

What do you think is more realistic?
By ChoKuRei 12.March.2010 - 21:06
QUOTE (ChoKuRei @ 12 Mar 2010, 20:06) *
What do you think is more realistic?
I won't know until the system is more concrete, but "1000%" seems like you're just picking "scary numbers" without any fundamental reasoning to back it up (yet you claim it could "easily" meet that.. surely it could then just as "easily" hit 10000%).
By GoldfishGod 12.March.2010 - 21:07
QUOTE (GoldfishGod @ 12 Mar 2010, 21:07) *
I won't know until the system is more concrete.

Is that a concrete fence you're sitting on?

You said I'm overstating the numbers, but don't actually have enough confidence in that statement to provide better numbers?
By ChoKuRei 12.March.2010 - 21:14
QUOTE (ChoKuRei @ 12 Mar 2010, 19:49) *
How about spamming everyone who goes to the ogrine market: "10% cheaper kamas than you can get through selling Ogrines, guaranteed"?


Except there's absolutely no way to guarantee that (which is a point I keep trying to make). Ogrine prices will be player set. If the illegal kama-sellers undercut them, then the Ogrine-selling players can just drop their prices a little more. Such players can drop the Ogrine prices as low as the market will stand, but the illegal kama-sellers can only drop their prices so far before the whole thing becomes unprofitable to them (because, again, they have real-world expenses - hardware to maintain, software to update, a network to keep up, and employees to pay - to keep their business going).

You keep claiming that they'll just "undercut the Ogrine-sellers", but since there is absolutely no way to know what the market price will be until the whole thing is actually in operation, there's no way to claim with any assurance that they can do so. In fact, from a few Google searches, I've noticed that the kama-sellers are being inconvenienced to the point of having to drastically raise prices on 2.0 servers to remain in business (as in, Zatoishawn and Aermyne kama prices are ten times the prices on Rushu, Rosal, and Solar). This is not a situation in which they can just casually drop their prices to match an ever-changing player-driven market and hope to stay in business.

Also, spamming people who have already bought Ogrines makes no sense at all. Why would kama-selling sites target people who have already spent their money?
By Schmendrick 12.March.2010 - 21:21
QUOTE (ChoKuRei @ 12 Mar 2010, 20:14) *
You said I'm overstating the numbers, but don't actually have enough confidence in that statement to provide better numbers?
Why would me "making up numbers", in the same way you have, make my point any more meaningful?
By GoldfishGod 12.March.2010 - 21:24
QUOTE (Schmendrick @ 12 Mar 2010, 21:21) *
Except there's absolutely no way to guarantee that (which is a point I keep trying to make). Ogrine prices will be player set. If the illegal kama-sellers undercut them, then the Ogrine-selling players can just drop their prices a little more. Such players can drop the Ogrine prices as low as the market will stand, but the illegal kama-sellers can only drop their prices so far before the whole thing becomes unprofitable to them (because, again, they have real-world expenses - hardware to maintain, software to update, a network to keep up, and employees to pay - to keep their business going).

Can you demonstrate botters have any significant costs?

I've demonstrated that botters can make hundreds of millions of kamas from farming jellies and that they can cut their prices 80-90% & still make 75% profit.

QUOTE
In fact, from a few Google searches, I've noticed that the kama-sellers are being inconvenienced to the point of having to drastically raise prices on 2.0 servers to remain in business (as in, Zatoishawn and Aermyne kama prices are ten times the prices on Rushu, Rosal, and Solar).

LOL! Kamas are worth more on a new server hence botters can charge more.

QUOTE
Also, spamming people who have already bought Ogrines makes no sense at all. Why would kama-selling sites target people who have already spent their money?

Because they're likely to buy more later on...
By ChoKuRei 12.March.2010 - 21:46
QUOTE (GoldfishGod @ 12 Mar 2010, 21:24) *
Why would me "making up numbers", in the same way you have, make my point any more meaningful?

Nice weasel words and you've changed your post.

Sorry, not interested in your p****** contest. If you want to get off the fence and have a proper debate about what the increase in demand is likely to be, let me know.
By ChoKuRei 12.March.2010 - 21:57
QUOTE (ChoKuRei @ 12 Mar 2010, 20:57) *
Nice weasel words and you've changed your post.

Sorry, not interested in your p****** contest. If you want to get off the fence and have a proper debate about what the increase in demand is likely to be, let me know.
So where is the calculation that gives your numbers?

If it makes you feel any better, I did not retroactively edit my post in response to your following one.
By GoldfishGod 12.March.2010 - 22:01
Your "demonstration" makes assumptions using numbers that you pulled out of nowhere.

First of all, your estimates on how much money they'll make per hour is based on gelanos selling for 1.25mk, which hasn't been accurate for a long time. Gelanos sell going for about 500kk on Rushu, Solar, and Rosal, and (due to changes in the PP lock in 2.0) less than 250kk on Zatoishwan. This already means that, in the best-case (best for them, that is) scenario, the money they're making will be cut to less than half of your estimates, and in the worst, to less than one-sixth your estimates. Then cut them in quarter again, considering that mods ban bots every day, not every "3.5 days" (wherever you got THAT number from), and if the bots are all farming jellies, then that's presumably where the mods will specifically go to look for them.

Suddenly, through application of actual current market figures rather than random numbers pulled from somewhere, that 6 mk a day you claim they can make becomes somewhere between 960kk and 2.4mk, and that 21mk before each account gets banned (and they have to resubscribe) becomes ... between 960kk and 2.4mk.

(And your estimates are rather odd to begin with - they require that the bots be farming for 24 hours a day without a break - including any break to transfer the items or money to any place where they can use to sell them for kamas... but, for the sake of argument, I'll just go along with your assumption they can do that somehow, and manage to transfer all their assets a few moments before getting banned, every single time, so that they somehow manage to get banned only when they're carrying no items)

And the other problem with your "demonstration" is how much it'll cost these bots to subscribe. You say 150k for a week's subscription via Ogrines? How did you come by that number, considering, as I keep saying, the market has not even opened yet, let alone stabilized? There's literally no way at all to set or even estimate any specific kama price for Ogrine trading, let alone basing your entire reasoning on it.

So, in fact, you have demonstrated absolutely nothing, except for an amazing lack of knowledge of what the game's market is actually like right now for even the oldest gear, let alone not-yet-introduced items.
By Schmendrick 12.March.2010 - 22:25
QUOTE (Schmendrick @ 12 Mar 2010, 22:25) *
Gelanos sell going for about 500kk on Rushu, Solar, and Rosal, and (due to changes in the PP lock in 2.0) less than 250kk on Zatoishwan.

Sorry, but the PP lock is 200 on all servers, not just 2.0. People on 1.29 servers don't seem to have realised this yet, even though it's been 200 instead of 800 for quite some time now.
By Oamoka 13.March.2010 - 01:54
QUOTE
I'm saying it doesn't matter if someone else cheated... I can still play the game according to my own "rules". I might even interact with one of these "cheats" (as you insist on calling them), but it's no different than any other player who had a head-start through current methods (an "older" character that can "hand down" money which can be easily earnt at higher levels).


That is saying that people that dont buy kamas are in no ways effected by those that do. Please correct me if i am wrong but i beg to differ. Those that buy kamas have large amounts to spend money on and can use this to effect the economy, it makes 10kk worthless in comparison, there is too, the fact it makes their life easy, i hav met MANY people that buy 12mk, then use that to max out tailor-shoemaker-and jewler and then use those skills to make money from there, that means more competition in the markets, and they can drop their prices because if they run low on kamas, they can just buy more. Matterials is an alike fashon, they use this money to get their hax set, get leeched to a high level, or get leeched through epic dungeons. this means that people get drops and can sell them aswell. though if they didnt buy kamas it would bne less people dropping those rare items and therefor they would be worth more( also effecting the armor economy) it seems like it would be too much work for some people but i see many people do that.

EDIT: Those that did not cheat and buy sets thanks to their strong and high leveled character have already worked hard for what they have. granted they are overpowered but they kinda deserve it. its like high school, freshmen are picked on, but when they are seniors they have the choice to pick on freshmen or help them. same thing, when u get to a high levle you can make a character overpowered or not. Thats one of the things to look forward to being a high level.
By pirotekno 13.March.2010 - 02:45
I have have read the blogs and just want some clarification. Can Ogrines be collected in game while playing? That is what im interested in. Can I Farm my own subscription? And if so how. example would be like does the Orgine seeker pet collect Orgines?

I dont care about Kama Sellers or other issues I just want to be able to sustain my own account without having to buy Ogrines from the Exchange.
By OwnedGhstHelp 14.March.2010 - 18:15
QUOTE (OwnedGhstHelp @ 14 Mar 2010, 18:15) *
I have have read the blogs and just want some clarification. Can Ogrines be collected in game while playing? That is what im interested in. Can I Farm my own subscription? And if so how. example would be like does the Orgine seeker pet collect Orgines?

No. You farm "Kards", which are very much like lottery cards. You can sell these to other players for Ogrine. Or, you can use them to obtain the item, which you could theoretically sell for kamas which could be used to buy Ogrine.

The Ogrine Seeker has nothing to do with Ogrine. Apart from the name. It doesn't collect Ogrine in any way.
By Oamoka 15.March.2010 - 06:11
The Ogrine system is a way to dictate sale of kamas through the in game economy. This should prevent any biases based on inflation towards a server (x amount of ogrines worth 500kk on Rushu, while being 100kk on a newer server). You cannot argue that this will ruin the server because there is already audio code sellers and kama sellers. The audio code sellers will be able to sell ogrines instead and they can sell for more kamas and the buyers will be able to get just as much p2p from them per kama (the cost per week if you buy at a year quantity is much lower, so it can make up for higher prices).

One positive/ negative (depending on how you look at it) with this system though, is that it legitimizes a player to multi account without any cash boundaries. I personally like this because a player can create alt accounts as 'kama investments'. However, I do think that this will make multi accounting more popular and Ankama should make a server for only solo players within 3-6 months of the release of ogrines.

A significant enough population of Ankama's customers buy/ sell audio codes that they would suffer from banning all of these people that break the terms in this manner. This is one reason that I think Ankama made this system. It would give immunity to all players that technically break the terms, but still allow Ankama to profit.

I personally love this system and I am looking forward to it biggrin.gif
By SlitMyWrists 15.March.2010 - 18:50
so.. i dont get this thing very well. This means we can buy ogrines in game using kamas, and later use those ogrines to pay subscriptions/change colour/name etc? or we can buy ogrines and later trade them for kamas? or nothing even near that lol?

im kinda confused blink.gif
By smokeninja 15.March.2010 - 20:09
QUOTE (ChoKuRei @ 12 Mar 2010, 22:57) *
Nice weasel words and you've changed your post.

Sorry, not interested in your p****** contest. If you want to get off the fence and have a proper debate about what the increase in demand is likely to be, let me know.


Actually, GoldfishGod is the one being reasonable. And polite.

Illegal kama farmers currently rip off foolish players, penalise everyone by hogging resources and mobs, block access to the servers, put <expletive deleted> tracker-spambots on every map in Astrub, and deliberately drive up prices in the salesrooms. Ankama have had to intervene in the past to bring salesroom prices down. If they reckon selling kamas in a legal, controlled way can reduce the nuisance, I'm all for it.

You should give the new system a chance before ranting and raving and pulling figures out of nowhere. That's for bad politicians, and worse journalists.
By HoneySoie 16.March.2010 - 00:12
QUOTE (HoneySoie @ 16 Mar 2010, 00:12) *
Actually, GoldfishGod is the one being reasonable. And polite.

Since when is it polite to public defame someone and say they made up numbers? Just shows lack of decency.

QUOTE
If they reckon selling kamas in a legal, controlled way can reduce the nuisance, I'm all for it.

Let's see. They also reckoned that:
1. The osa rebuild wouldn't be overpowered.
2. The sac rebuild (pre nerf) wouldn't be overpowered.
3. The cra rebuild wouldn't be overpowered.
4. Giving level 60 int iops 2 strokens for every 1 turn kill was a good idea.
5. Dofus 2.0 would be out in December.

I'm sure there are plenty more to that list.

I'm personally for not ruining PvP to get rid of bots but it looks like ogrine-trading will make bots worse - unless Ankama puts a minimum 2 month subscription on it.

QUOTE
You should give the new system a chance before ranting and raving and pulling figures out of nowhere.

You do realise that there's no going back? Aside from a 3 month rollback.

I've backed up my figures here. It seems nobody else has even tried.
By ChoKuRei 16.March.2010 - 06:12
QUOTE (ChoKuRei @ 16 Mar 2010, 05:12) *
Since when is it polite to public defame someone and say they made up numbers? Just shows lack of decency.
So, where did you get "Demand for bought kamas could increase 1000% easily" from? Because I don't see any of that in your own "figures" (I see numbers for "how much" botters could profit... but not anything related to demand). You have not shown any calculations for "1000%" (easy or otherwise), even if you have for other numbers.

... maybe I've missed it? If so, show me where please, otherwise it is "made up".
By GoldfishGod 16.March.2010 - 10:09
It shows real class to be able to admit when one is wrong, ChoKuRei (for example, on the matter of what Gelanos are currently selling for). I commend you.

Or I would commend you, if you'd actually admitted it instead of just stealthily changing your "demonstration" post without comment.

Also:

QUOTE (ChoKuRei @ 7 Mar 2010, 13:15) *
Roughly guessing that, along with all the other junk they drop & sell, the whole team makes 750kk every 4hours or 4.5mk a day. That's 32mk a week or 16mk if they get banned after 3.5 days.

....

Back to gelano-farming bots, assuming a 1 week of sub's worth of ogrines costs 150kk, the botter would instead be buying 1.05mk worth of subs for that 16mk return and reduce their real life costs to almost zero. They'd be crazy to not do it.


The phrases "roughly guessing" and "assuming" are not synonymous with "accurate figures pulled from actual experience and history".
By Schmendrick 16.March.2010 - 10:59
QUOTE (GoldfishGod @ 16 Mar 2010, 10:09) *
If so, show me where please

No.

I refer you to posts #32 & #28.

If you wanted a serious debate, you wouldn't:

a) change your post and then claim it isn't defamation.
b) avoid making any actual assertions of your own eg refusing to answer post #26.

Prove you're actually qualified to comment and not just waste my time.
By ChoKuRei 16.March.2010 - 11:30
QUOTE (ChoKuRei @ 16 Mar 2010, 10:30) *
Prove you're actually qualified to comment and not just waste my time.
My original post of #27, which I believe you are having such an "issue" over me editting read:

"I won't know until the system is more concrete".

I then clarified that by adding:

"but "1000%" seems like you're just picking "scary numbers" without any fundamental reasoning to back it up (yet you claim it could "easily" meet that.. surely it could then just as "easily" hit 10000%)."

Neither version alter the fact that I AM "sitting on the fence" about numbers, nor that you have not actually backed up your "1000%" in any meaningful way.

My stance is that there is no way to really gauge how kama-demand will increase at this stage, your apparent stance is that "it will easily reach 1000%" and are apparently adamant that this is some sort of valid number that needs nothing to support it. You have ignored, and refused to answer a basic "how?" for your estimation of this number. So, it adds no weight to your argument any more than my refusal to actually give a number at all... except that for you, you are claiming ANY number somehow makes your argument more valid, no matter how accurate it is, or what proof actually backs it (in this case you chose "1000%").
By GoldfishGod 16.March.2010 - 12:08
QUOTE (GoldfishGod @ 16 Mar 2010, 12:08) *
My original post of #27, which I believe you are having such an "issue" over me editting read:

"I won't know until the system is more concrete".

And the intermediate edit, before you added the 1000% number?

QUOTE
I AM "sitting on the fence"

We're on Page 3. I don't have time for this. Nor am I interested in attempting to debate fence-sitters who are dishonest about what they've written and who will try to weasel everything I say to try and discredit my argument.

QUOTE
"it will easily reach 1000%"

Not to mention misquote me. I wrote "could increase 1000% easily".
By ChoKuRei 16.March.2010 - 12:59
QUOTE (ChoKuRei @ 16 Mar 2010, 11:59) *
And the intermediate edit, before you added the 1000% number?
Okay, and how did it look that it somehow "differed" from what I'm saying now? If you're seriously accusing me of something based on the fact that I've editted my posts, I think you need to make a stronger argument than that (or at least specify exactly what has so offended you).

Your post quotes the first draft, and calls me a "fence-sitter"... so I am (in terms of kama-demand). What version of the post were you responding to, if not the one you quoted?

I will readily acknowledge that I edit my posts, usually to clarify my position, and/or to correct formatting, spelling, grammar, etc. I am not accusing you of "making up" all your numbers.

QUOTE
Not to mention misquote me. I wrote "could increase 1000% easily".
What is the grammatical difference? The possibility... not too relevant when I'm questioning the number itself. It makes it even less "solid" if your argument stands on "the possibility of something that might happen, maybe...". Your stance seems to be more "will happen" than just "could happen" since you are defending it so strongly (your "apparent stance" is not the same as a quote).
By GoldfishGod 16.March.2010 - 13:02
*sigh*
Guys, if you are going to argue, I would recommend you argue about the subject, rather than about the way you each deliver your arguments. Right now this is just a flamefest and I shall close it if it doesn't get back on track (if there is one?)
Seems to me like you are both disagreeing, and have simply reached a stalemate, so to speak.

Also, there are situations in an debate where pedantry might be useful and relevant. This is not one of them, so please both stop it and move on.
There is an interesting debate behind the flames and I think it's a shame to drown it (hah!) so.
By [Fulminata] 16.March.2010 - 13:49
im still confused over whether you can buy a susbscription with your kamas?
By pascalsauvage 17.March.2010 - 01:35
QUOTE (pascalsauvage @ 17 Mar 2010, 01:35) *
im still confused over whether you can buy a susbscription with your kamas?


You may buy Ogrines from other players, which can be redeemed for subscription time. =)
By Izmar 17.March.2010 - 10:01
i am on the server Zaitoshwan (or however its spelled tongue.gif) and i cannot buy ogrines in-game...

theres a window that pops up but it says something like ''soon here''... im not sure because its in french

HELP!!!
By DjTetris 09.April.2010 - 22:08
QUOTE (zetzima @ 9 Mar 2010, 17:20) *
umm... So you CAN use the ogrines to rename your character right? Im just curious does it have the limitations like they have nowadays like only one - mark and no big letters in the middle like RoCkAr (lol what a name)? If not im gonna rename me very epicly. IF NOT im not gonna do a thing


Yeah, I like that question. I use to have a cra named TearsOfHeaven and I'd reeeaaally like to have that name again
By CriticalKid 10.April.2010 - 16:17
QUOTE (Oamoka @ 10 Mar 2010, 04:00) *
You can shift+click on the colour channel thing, and it gives you a little box you can put the hex code into.


it's not working for me x.x
By CriticalKid 10.April.2010 - 17:15
There is one flawed assumption that everyone is making. More kamas (in the scale that Ogrine buyers are capable of) does not equate to better pvp. Of course, I play on Rushu, so things may be different on other servers, but once you reach 180+, players you fight have 'untouchable' gear. It is unpractical to buy ap maged items, 20 crit turqs, or ochres with Ogrines.

The reality of Dofus is that you NEED professions to earn kamas. Too many players dismiss this fact and end up mightily struggling at 100+ to equip their character. People might think that Ogrines will give a free ride, but there is a limit on how much cash that the average Ogrine buyer will spend and this limit cannot supply enough kamas to equip a respectably geared player. If I've learned anything from Rushu, it is that you cannot buy optimized equips from sellrooms, you have to mage them yourself and that is ridiculously expensive for a player that has no magus professions (markets have double overmaged items, but all the resists and stuff is missing, you need to keep those).

I had a few friends who would sell codes, which is basically the same thing as Ogrines, but illegal. All of those friends were horribly undergeared and they hid behind the false sense of security that code buying gave them and never invested in a profession. Needless to say, those players found the game too difficult and have quit for WOW.

The only thing that Ogrines can help with is leveling a profession or playing some stupid stroken cra that takes no kamas to make, yet wins 80% of fights no matter how well geared the other character is.

Oh yeah, and I think it is a bit naive to assume that bot companies have infinite kamas. Bots have been severely limited on 2.0 (f2p characters are allowed online) and I don't think that they will have enough stock to actually sell enough kamas for profit to legitimately compete with Ankama.
By -Whitelightning 11.April.2010 - 22:29
in my opinion if ankama have made it so you can't transfer ogrines into real money - which obviously they wouldnt do - the bot situation will get better.
Although people will want more kamas to get ogrines they would probably not buy the kamas from a bot as they may aswell just buy the ogrines, at the very least this will just mean that bots sell their kamas for less, in which case the people who caused the problem of making the bot business so good (people who buy the kamas) will benefit too.
so basically, ankama have now got a credit system like all the games which you buy clothes/furniture/membership from, just another way of making money, and why not? the ogrines arent effecting the price of subscription.
if your smart and raise proffesions then hopefully everything will cost more as kamas are easier to come by.

i can't see how this could go wrong but if it does, damn, they must have done somet stupid...
By GoodOlMe 15.April.2010 - 11:39
QUOTE (GoodOlMe @ 15 Apr 2010, 10:39) *
Although people will want more kamas to get ogrines they would probably not buy the kamas from a bot as they may aswell just buy the ogrines, at the very least this will just mean that bots sell their kamas for less, in which case the people who caused the problem of making the bot business so good (people who buy the kamas) will benefit too.


The only problem is precisely that... So ankama created ogrines who theoretically should be cheaper than illegal kamas selling sites... The kamas-sellers only have to lower the price... then the ogrines get cheaper, then the sites... and what does it all come to? 1$/mk? I know what most of you guys must be thinking "it would run the bots out of business" but... would ankama really bother beating 1$/mk? Probably not since they know it would ruin the game. So the only argument they have left is "its legit"... some people couldn't care less. Then people would be running around with 80mk in their pockets, and proffessions dont mean anything anymore... What's the difference between someone who bought kamas to have a kick-ass pvp char and somebody who didn't? Maybe the illegal kamas buyer's shouldn't have a sense of pride, but it all comes down to who wins... And everything would obviously cost more and why? Because kamas are more affordable. Meanwhile those who are proffing would not make any easier money... therefore those who prof are punished for not "cheating". So naturally, some of them have to start buying kamas... or quit. Fair? I think not.
By Nighhtfire 16.April.2010 - 03:05
QUOTE (-Whitelightning @ 11 Apr 2010, 21:29) *
Oh yeah, and I think it is a bit naive to assume that bot companies have infinite kamas. Bots have been severely limited on 2.0 (f2p characters are allowed online) and I don't think that they will have enough stock to actually sell enough kamas for profit to legitimately compete with Ankama.


Maybe that is the case presently, but as I said in my last comment, some people who proff instead of buying kamas off illegal sites might start buying, and so increasing the bot sites business gigantically, which could be enough for the bot sites to afford much lower prices.
By Nighhtfire 16.April.2010 - 21:42
Ok, so ogrines will make kama selling safer - people willing to use real money to pay for them often use shady services that possibly send you to phishing sites that steal passwords etc. So hacking might go down with this. But it will also make it so that people with money in real life (or 12 year old children with their parent's credit card) will get an advantage over people who struggle to pay month to month. This is my most troubling problem with this system. It makes it so that old players with hax kama counts, can now play for free at the expense of newbies who want to get rich quick in game.

I think maybe many people pay month to month, so by doing a 2 month minimum will make it so that if you quit early you will lose that money - any way to refund ogrines? Since you can trade them in game, I am guessing not sad.gif But I can see why ankama would want this - people who only go week to week will see that they have extra ogrines and might be tempted to use them for your other superfluous services.

Another troubling thing I see is the pay real money to change your characters name/gender color. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but, doesn't this also increase players selling accounts?
Player A has several accounts. He levels an iops or enu to level 100, and sells the account for kamas (or money?) to Player B.
Player B buys the account, pays real money to change its name and color to the ones he wants.
*Could this create more hacking into the bought account?

It also could make it easier for scammers to reinvent themselves, making new names and colors so they can erase their old reputation.

I'm in agreement with some of the other people - I would rather play with honorable players. Kama selling does not seem honorable to me. Even if you convert to ogrines, will there be servers that do not have a kama-ogrine market place?
By Yuubou 20.April.2010 - 04:28
W8 i dont get it, do we buy/sell ogrines and kamas to others or does the game sell/but kamas and ogrines from us??? sorry tongue.gif
By girbletina 04.May.2010 - 14:50
We can buy Ogrines, and after a certain amount of time (not sure if it's 3 months or something) we can then sell the Ogrines to players for KAMAS. Ogrines can be used for color/gender changes, Subscription time and probably a bunch of other neat goodies. Ogrines will be almost like a subscription pet, but more useful in certain respects. Also, the reason for the 3 month wait period (or whatever it is) is so someone can't screw around with a fake credit card, buy 50000 Ogrines per sé, and trade them all off before Ankama can reverse the transaction.

-Mentor 68
By Mentor-LXVIII 04.May.2010 - 17:59
Does anyone know when the market is going to be available to buy ogrines?
By PacoAnaya 08.May.2010 - 02:23
Add a comment
You must log in to post a comment.